Yamaha P60 vs. Casio Privia PX110?

[Ainsley]

I have narrowed my search for a decent keyboard down to these two
options: the Yamaha P60 and the Casio Privia PX110. I don't need any
fancy sounds, since I have a Midi box that does all that, I am just
looking for something with weighted keys that will give me a good
acoustic piano sound I can use to play and sing. I have played on both
of them in the store (not in the same store, unfortunately!) and
honestly cannot discern any difference. I know that Yamaha has made a
better name for itself, but other reviews I've read online have said
that Casio is really making a place for itself in the 'real' keyboard
market with this Privia line. In short, reviews of both keyboards have
been favourable and even on a Yamaha-oriented web site one guy stated
that these Casio Privias are really good value and just as good as the
Yamahas. I would pay $750 CDN for the Casio (brand new) vs. $895 CDN
for the Yamaha (slightly used). Any opinions would be welcome and very
much appreciated!

[tralfaz]

Post by Ainsley
I have narrowed my search for a decent keyboard down to these two
options: the Yamaha P60 and the Casio Privia PX110. I don't need any

<snip>

Post by Ainsley
Yamahas. I would pay $750 CDN for the Casio (brand new) vs. $895 CDN
for the Yamaha (slightly used). Any opinions would be welcome and very
much appreciated!

The Yamaha and Casio brands have keyboards in different price ranges /
categories. They make some nice ones for people who want something
good and they make some cheap ones to give as Christmas presents.
(the ones you usually see at the department stores)
In the cheapest level they are both pretty toy like. In the slightly
more expensive range ($300 - $400 US), then I think that the Casio has
a clear advantage of features, quality and tone over the Yamahas in
the same range. I compared lots of them and bought two different
Casios.. the WK3000 (now the WK3700) and it's smaller version CTK-591
a year later. Whenever I play the Yamahas in the store to compare I
always think that I am glad I bought the Casios and not the Yamahas.
The Yamahas just feel and sound cheap to me. The keys wobble too much
and the tone is not as good (to me). Of course the settings are
usually not optimized on the store displays and kids banging on them
sure make them sound awful. I think that's the impression most people
get of Casios.. from hearing kids banging on them at Radio Shack!
hehehe After you make some nice settings of reverb, echo, tone
selections, splits and layered sounds, then the impression is
completely different.

Then there's the next level up which you are considering. More in the
'real' keyboard feel category. In that range I haven't compared them,
but you should ignore any stigma about the names and look at the
reviews and your own testing. Personally, I think that the
non-weighted keys are easier to play, faster action and easier on the
fingers. There really is no need to imitate the physical "key hammer
striking a string feel" unless you need to develop that feel for later
use on a 'real' piano. If you are going to stick with a keyboard from
now on then do your fingers a favor and stay away from those stiff
weighted key actions. It only feels like that on a 'real' piano
because it has to. Levers, cables, pulleys, banging a hammer on a
string. It's not a good thing, it's a bad thing! Tires your fingers
out and can lead to Carpal Tunnel Syndrome too. I wish they would
stop advertising weighted keys on an electronic keyboard as a plus
feature. It's only true if you are in training for a string box.

good luck,
tralfaz

[Marc Sabatella]

Personally, I think that the non-weighted keys are easier to play,
faster action and easier on the fingers.

For someone who hasn't ever played a piano, and is only playing
relatively simple music, this might be true. In general, it is not.

There really is no need to imitate the physical "key hammer striking a
string feel" unless you need to develop that feel for later use on a
'real' piano.

The resistance provided by the weighted is actually very useful in
allowing you to control dynamics and play fats cleanly. Take two groups
people, have one learn on an unweighted keyboard, and the other on a
weighted keyboard or real piano, and the latter will amost certainly be
outperforming the former in a farily short period of time. People in
the former group will struggle big time once they get to music of any
more complexity than, say, "Fur Elise" (and even that will probably be
played better by the latter group).

Tires your fingers out and can lead to Carpal Tunnel Syndrome too.

In *very* rare cases - how many professional pianists have there been
throuout history, and how many have gotten CTS? Of course, unweighted
keyboards can also lead to problems - it's the repetive motion that is
usually the issue, not anything specific about the motion itself. That
said, the bottoming out of the keys on an unweighted keyboard is
probably not a good thing.

I wish they would stop advertising weighted keys on an electronic
keyboard as a plus feature. It's only true if you are in training for
a string box.

People with an interest in playing piano are the ones these keyboards
are marketed for. And there are millions of such people.

---------------
Marc Sabatella
***@outsideshore.com

Music, art, & educational materials
Featuring "A Jazz Improvisation Primer"
http://www.outsideshore.com/

[tralfaz]

Post by Marc Sabatella

Personally, I think that the non-weighted keys are easier to play,
faster action and easier on the fingers.

For someone who hasn't ever played a piano, and is only playing
relatively simple music, this might be true. In general, it is not.

I respect your opinion. I am just going by my own experience.
I have a Casio and a full sized Kurzweil digital piano that I play
every day and the lighter touch on the Casio allows me to play longer
and faster, but maybe that's not supposed to happen. hehehe
tralfaz

[Ainsley]

While I really do love hearing your opinions on this matter (no sarcasm
there, trust me! :) ), can anyone actually respond to my post? I am a
classically trained pianist, so there really is no question of whether
to get weighted keys (oh, sorry, "graded hammer action") or not.
Thanks, though. Any thoughts are very much appreciated. Maybe I
should post this on the electric piano group...?

[Dan Halbert]

Post by Ainsley
While I really do love hearing your opinions on this matter (no sarcasm
there, trust me! :) ), can anyone actually respond to my post? I am a
classically trained pianist, so there really is no question of whether
to get weighted keys (oh, sorry, "graded hammer action") or not.
Thanks, though. Any thoughts are very much appreciated. Maybe I
should post this on the electric piano group...?

I can only give my own subjective impressions, which I recently posted
in another thread, but basically:

I liked the PX-110 piano sound; it's very nice. I had trouble getting
the dynamic range I wanted out of the instrument: I couldn't play as
quietly as I wanted. I would rank the piano sounds as
P60 < PX-110 < P120. The P60 sounded artificial to me. All this testing
was done with headphones (all in the same store) because the store was
so noisy, so the dynamic range might not be an issue with the speakers.
These are just my initial impressions, and I need some more visits
before I make up my mind.

There is a lot of discussion about various electronic pianos at:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi. Look at the
"Digital Pianos - Synths & Keyboards" forum on that page.

Dan

[Ainsley]

Thank you, Dan. Much appreciated. For me, the sound matters more over
the dynamic range, since I now play mostly non-classical stuff and
since using an electric piano you can always turn yourself down a bit!
:) Also, it seems that the P120 has been discontinued and replaced
with the P140 - have you tried that one out? My guess is that they
would be comparable. Unfortunately, it's a bit out of my price range,
since I live in Canada and those great deals you find online on
American sites are usually unavailable to us Northerners because of
customs issues! :)

[Dan Halbert]

Thank you, Dan...Also, it seems that the P120 has been discontinued and
replaced with the P140 - have you tried that one out?

You're quite welcome. I did try the P140. The P140 seemed to have a
"darker" tone to its grand-piano choices. I liked the P120 better, but
that's clearly just my subjective preference. Some people complain there
is a metallic ringing in the upper registers in the P120. I can hear
this, but it sounds to me like the sound one might hear in a real piano.

This is all based on a couple of visits months apart to the local Guitar
Center. I first tried the P60 and P120, and the PX-100. The P120 struck
me as an effective illusion (for me) of a real piano. Then, more
recently, I went to try the new Casios: PX-110, PX-310, and PX-700,
which are advertised as having an improved (three samples per note)
piano sound. They did sound better than the PX-100. I ran out of time
and only had a brief chance to try the P120 vs. P140, and didn't get to
re-try the P60.

[Ainsley]

The link to the PianoWorld Forum was quite helpful, as there seemed to
be many people in a similiar situation asking questions there. I read
on this group that the metallic ringing was a complaint for the P90,
but that's a bit discerning to find out that it's for the P120 as well.
After reviewing what you have said here and the thoughts posted on the
PianoWorld site, I will probably go for the PX110 - I don't have the
cash right now to go for the P120 or 140 and people seem to be
enthusaistic about it's value. I will just ensure that I spend a
little bit extra on a decent pedal - any thoughts on that? Thanks
again!

[Dan Halbert]

Just to throw a little monkey wrench in, I too was reading the
Pianoworld forums just now, and I see that a Yamaha P70 is now out or
will be out this month, as a P60 replacement. Whether it's worth waiting
to try, who knows?

[Dan Halbert]

One more followup, for posterity.

I decided to read the online manuals for these various pianos on the
Casio and Yamaha websites. I discovered that they have quite a bit more
functionality than is obvious from the printed legends on the controls.
For instance, they will do transposition, tuning changes, split and dual
voices. Nearly all have touch sensitivity changes (P60 does not), more
than one reverb and chorus setting, etc., etc. These hidden settings are
controllable with various combinations of pressing function keys and
(unmarked) keyboard keys.

It's worth reading the manuals online or asking to see the manuals in
the store to get a full picture of what the piano can actually do.

Dan

[Marc Sabatella]

Post by Ainsley
While I really do love hearing your opinions on this matter (no sarcasm
there, trust me! :) ), can anyone actually respond to my post?

Look around - there is at least one other thread on this very topic that
is active right now, and the subject comes up about once a week.
Basically, a lot of people like the Casio, but a lot have trouble
shaking the notion that Casio makes toys. The Yamaha is also very
well-liekd despite occasional nits about the action being stiff or
rumors of metallic sound in some instruments in the line. But the two
you are looking at are roughly comparable, and I think if the feel or
sound or one appeals to you more than the other, than that is the one to
get.

---------------
Marc Sabatella
***@outsideshore.com

Music, art, & educational materials
Featuring "A Jazz Improvisation Primer"
http://www.outsideshore.com/

[tralfaz]

Post by Ainsley
I have narrowed my search for a decent keyboard down to these two
options: the Yamaha P60 and the Casio Privia PX110. I don't need any

<snip>

Post by Ainsley
Yamahas. I would pay $750 CDN for the Casio (brand new) vs. $895 CDN
for the Yamaha (slightly used). Any opinions would be welcome and very
much appreciated!

The Yamaha and Casio brands have keyboards in different price ranges /
categories. They make some nice ones for people who want something
good and they make some cheap ones to give as Christmas presents.
(the ones you usually see at the department stores)
In the cheapest level they are both pretty toy like. In the slightly
more expensive range ($300 - $400 US), then I think that the Casio has
a clear advantage of features, quality and tone over the Yamahas in
the same range. I compared lots of them and bought two different
Casios.. the WK3000 (now the WK3700) and it's smaller version CTK-591
a year later. Whenever I play the Yamahas in the store to compare I
always think that I am glad I bought the Casios and not the Yamahas.
The Yamahas just feel and sound cheap to me. The keys wobble too much
and the tone is not as good (to me). Of course the settings are
usually not optimized on the store displays and kids banging on them
sure make them sound awful. I think that's the impression most people
get of Casios.. from hearing kids banging on them at Radio Shack!
hehehe After you make some nice settings of reverb, echo, tone
selections, splits and layered sounds, then the impression is
completely different.

Then there's the next level up which you are considering. More in the
'real' keyboard feel category. In that range I haven't compared them,
but you should ignore any stigma about the names and look at the
reviews and your own testing. Personally, I think that the
non-weighted keys are easier to play, faster action and easier on the
fingers. There really is no need to imitate the physical "key hammer
striking a string feel" unless you need to develop that feel for later
use on a 'real' piano. If you are going to stick with a keyboard from
now on then do your fingers a favor and stay away from those stiff
weighted key actions. It only feels like that on a 'real' piano
because it has to. Levers, cables, pulleys, banging a hammer on a
string. It's not a good thing, it's a bad thing! Tires your fingers
out and can lead to Carpal Tunnel Syndrome too. I wish they would
stop advertising weighted keys on an electronic keyboard as a plus
feature. It's only true if you are in training for a string box.

good luck,
tralfaz

[n***@grandecom.net]

I just bought a P60.
I'm a jazz pianist, and I'm happy with both the touch and the sound.
It does sound a bit electronic in the octave beginning on middle C. Below
that, fine, above that, fine.
The singer I worked with loved the piano / strings together voice, and he
tends to dislike anything electronic.
I like the dual voice feature on this keyboard as well as the weight (36
lbs.). Very simple as well.
The action was a big plus for me, since I've been playing a Roland A33
controller on gigs up to now. That one has no weight at all, though it does
respond dynamically.
I can't speak about the Privia PX110.
I think I played one in a music store and was immediately more interested in
the Roland and Yamaha models.
I like the Nord, but it costs too much and it's mostly for great electronic
sounds (Rhodes, B3, etc.).
Morris Nelms

Post by Ainsley
I have narrowed my search for a decent keyboard down to these two
options: the Yamaha P60 and the Casio Privia PX110. I don't need any
fancy sounds, since I have a Midi box that does all that, I am just
looking for something with weighted keys that will give me a good
acoustic piano sound I can use to play and sing. I have played on both
of them in the store (not in the same store, unfortunately!) and
honestly cannot discern any difference. I know that Yamaha has made a
better name for itself, but other reviews I've read online have said
that Casio is really making a place for itself in the 'real' keyboard
market with this Privia line. In short, reviews of both keyboards have
been favourable and even on a Yamaha-oriented web site one guy stated
that these Casio Privias are really good value and just as good as the
Yamahas. I would pay $750 CDN for the Casio (brand new) vs. $895 CDN
for the Yamaha (slightly used). Any opinions would be welcome and very
much appreciated!

[Richard Watson]

In short, reviews of both keyboards have been favourable and even on
a Yamaha-oriented web site one guy stated that these Casio Privias
are really good value and just as good as the Yamahas.

Go back to first principles and judge each one at a time.

Sitting down at the instrument - do you like it? Does it feel right?
Does it make a good sound? Is it convincing enough for you? Don't rely
on a review to tell you these things. After you've owned an instrument
for a few years you'll know everything that's wrong with it, so the key
question is "Can you live with it?". Only you know the balance of
features that you need.

If I sat down at either of these devices and could not feel completely
happy with it as an instrument then I wouldn't buy it. If I felt happy
with both to the same extent then I'd consider myself lucky to have a
choice of two good instruments and buy the cheapest or the one that my
wife liked or fitted in with my room or whatever. I doubt there's much
difference between the two brands at this price point to suggest better
build quality, reliability etc.

HTH.