Fingering for legato scale in thirds

[Edward]

For my next ABRSM Grade exam, I have to play the scale of C major in thirds legato.

There are two suggested fingerings (right hand)

345343434534345
123121212312123

or

345234534523453
123112312311231

These seem bizarre to me: why not

345345345345345
123123123123123

TIA

Edward

[Alex Blakemore]

Hanon suggests the following, which looked strange at first, but eventually
made sense to me
234534523452345
112312311231123

If you look at the bottom line, it follows the 4 note, cross-over, 3 note
pattern of traditional scale.

Good luck, get a teacher's feedback. There is a lot more to playing this
smoothly than fingering,
such as smoothly playing the two back to back thumb notes legato,
cross-overs without
contorting your hand or wrist, without varying dynamics. Holding one of
the previous notes during the cross-over to have a smooth legato (top
ascending, bottom descending)

My teacher had me play slowly, very relaxed for a while, sometimes
practicing just the top line or just the
bottom line to get the fingering legato, then in rhythms, finally increasing
tempo,

P.S. I assume you preparing for Grade 7. Have you selected your repetoire
yet?
(I just took that exam a few weeks ago)

Post by Edward
For my next ABRSM Grade exam, I have to play the scale of C major in thirds legato.
There are two suggested fingerings (right hand)
345343434534345
123121212312123
or
345234534523453
123112312311231
These seem bizarre to me: why not
345345345345345
123123123123123
TIA
Edward
--
http://www.bookgroup.org.uk

[Edward]

Post by Alex Blakemore
Hanon suggests the following, which looked strange at first, but eventually
made sense to me
234534523452345
112312311231123
If you look at the bottom line, it follows the 4 note, cross-over, 3 note
pattern of traditional scale.
Good luck, get a teacher's feedback. There is a lot more to playing this
smoothly than fingering,
such as smoothly playing the two back to back thumb notes legato,
cross-overs without
contorting your hand or wrist, without varying dynamics. Holding one of
the previous notes during the cross-over to have a smooth legato (top
ascending, bottom descending)
My teacher had me play slowly, very relaxed for a while, sometimes
practicing just the top line or just the
bottom line to get the fingering legato, then in rhythms, finally increasing
tempo,
P.S. I assume you preparing for Grade 7. Have you selected your repetoire
yet?
(I just took that exam a few weeks ago)

How did your Grade 7 go? What pieces did you choose?

Anyway, thanks to you and Greg for the responses. I'll give this
fingering a go.

I'm not actually going to do Grade 7, but skipping to Grade 8 (gulp!).
This is my ultimate goal (in terms of graded assessment) and at £40+ a
pop, I thought I'd just go for G8. I'll probably take it next Summer
or Autumn.

Edward

[joel]

Post by Alex Blakemore
Hanon suggests the following, which looked strange at first, but eventually
made sense to me
234534523452345
112312311231123
If you look at the bottom line, it follows the 4 note, cross-over, 3 note
pattern of traditional scale.
Good luck, get a teacher's feedback. There is a lot more to playing this
smoothly than fingering,
such as smoothly playing the two back to back thumb notes legato,
cross-overs without
contorting your hand or wrist, without varying dynamics. Holding one of
the previous notes during the cross-over to have a smooth legato (top
ascending, bottom descending)
My teacher had me play slowly, very relaxed for a while, sometimes
practicing just the top line or just the
bottom line to get the fingering legato, then in rhythms, finally increasing
tempo,
P.S. I assume you preparing for Grade 7. Have you selected your repetoire
yet?
(I just took that exam a few weeks ago)

Post by Edward
For my next ABRSM Grade exam, I have to play the scale of C major in

thirds legato.

Post by Edward
There are two suggested fingerings (right hand)
345343434534345
123121212312123
or
345234534523453
123112312311231
These seem bizarre to me: why not
345345345345345
123123123123123
TIA
Edward
--
http://www.bookgroup.org.uk

Taking grade 7 in next session: Bach gigue, Leighton sonatina, either
Prokofiev or Payne. Don't really like the Payne piece, but might be a
more interesting programme. What about yourself?

[Alex Blakemore]

Post by joel
Taking grade 7 in next session: Bach gigue, Leighton sonatina, either
Prokofiev or Payne. Don't really like the Payne piece, but might be a
more interesting programme. What about yourself?

I played the Mozart sonata, Kjerulf Cradle Song, and the Shostakovich
Prelude

If you don't like the Payne piece, you might want to try the Shostakovich.
Its pretty strange at first, contemporary, different, kind of gloomy and
spooky.
All bass, slow tempo, occasionally bordering on atonal, but with a melody
line in there to
bring out. only one page. recurring rhythmic motif, how often do you get
to play a piece that often uses the lowest Bb on the piano?

[gregpresley]

Not that this will do you much good in your exam, but you should be aware
that in "real life" most of the time only the top of the third is played
truly legato - the lower note is usually played quasi-non-legato, both to
facilitate speed and ease, and to bring out the top voice more strongly. To
the listener, if the top line of the thirds is legato, the whole passage
will sound legato. When you settle on a fingering, you might try attempting
a really lovely legato for the top line, and releasing the lower notes right
after you play them. Just observe how it sounds and how it feels.......

Post by Edward
For my next ABRSM Grade exam, I have to play the scale of C major in thirds legato.
There are two suggested fingerings (right hand)
345343434534345
123121212312123
or
345234534523453
123112312311231
These seem bizarre to me: why not
345345345345345
123123123123123
TIA
Edward
--
http://www.bookgroup.org.uk

[Tjako van Schie]

Hi Edward,
have you tried this?
45454545454545
12121212121212

it is true legato fingering!

Regards,
Tjako van Schie, pianist
http://www.tjakovanschie.com

Post by Edward
For my next ABRSM Grade exam, I have to play the scale of C major in thirds legato.
There are two suggested fingerings (right hand)
345343434534345
123121212312123
or
345234534523453
123112312311231
These seem bizarre to me: why not
345345345345345
123123123123123
TIA
Edward
--
http://www.bookgroup.org.uk

[gregpresley]

Tjako, it IS true legato fingering, but it also carries the thumb onto the
black notes in any scale except for C major, which is going to mean that it
cannot be used in quick passages fo those other keys. (Maybe you only
intended it as a fingering for C major thirds). This fingering is also much
easier to play going higher but is very difficult to maintain in true legato
on the return coming down, so an alternate fingering for the return might
turn out to be necessary, if good legato is wanted . I really don't know the
purpose of Edward's teacher in giving this assignment. Is it to teach double
thirds as an exercise in finger control or is it as a preparation for "real
life" double third passages? This is one set of scales that I prefer not to
teach except in the context of a real piece of music, because the kind of
fingering used in an exercise rarely matches the fingering needed in the
context of a given piece of music.

Post by Tjako van Schie
Hi Edward,
have you tried this?
45454545454545
12121212121212
it is true legato fingering!
Regards,
Tjako van Schie, pianist

[Edward]

Post by gregpresley
Tjako, it IS true legato fingering, but it also carries the thumb onto the
black notes in any scale except for C major, which is going to mean that it
cannot be used in quick passages fo those other keys. (Maybe you only
intended it as a fingering for C major thirds). This fingering is also much
easier to play going higher but is very difficult to maintain in true legato
on the return coming down, so an alternate fingering for the return might
turn out to be necessary, if good legato is wanted . I really don't know the
purpose of Edward's teacher in giving this assignment. Is it to teach double
thirds as an exercise in finger control or is it as a preparation for "real
life" double third passages? This is one set of scales that I prefer not to
teach except in the context of a real piece of music, because the kind of
fingering used in an exercise rarely matches the fingering needed in the
context of a given piece of music.

The purpose of the exercise is known only to the Associated Board of
the Royal Schools of Music, who set the exam for which this exercise
is part of the syllabus. I imagine that it is to test the applicant's
ability to apply his/her nose to the grindstone, because it's hard to
make this sound like music!

Edward

[Edward]

Post by Edward

Post by Edward
For my next ABRSM Grade exam, I have to play the scale of C major in

thirds legato.

Post by Edward
There are two suggested fingerings (right hand)
345343434534345
123121212312123
or
345234534523453
123112312311231
These seem bizarre to me: why not
345345345345345
123123123123123
TIA
Edward
--
http://www.bookgroup.org.uk

Hi Edward,
have you tried this?
45454545454545
12121212121212
it is true legato fingering!
Regards,
Tjako van Schie, pianist
http://www.tjakovanschie.com

Thanks Tjako. I have heard from my teacher that the suggested
fingerings are to prepare me for the more difficult scales like C
sharp minor that I will encounter in higher grades. However, I will
try your fingering just to see!

Joel, I'm not taking G7 but will do G8 at some time in the future,
maybe next year, more likely the year after, but definitely before I'm
50!

Best

Edward