Black Keys

[A totally insignificant person.]

I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.

Why?

[Robert Steinberg]

Post by A totally insignificant person.
I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.

I believe 'never' is not the case...more of don't if there are better
choices in a moving passage. I don't think you'll find and scales that
start on black keys with the thumb.

I've just been reading Act 2 of "Tosca". There's beautiful inversion of
Eb-7 (Db, Gb, Bb, Eb) in the right hand. If someone has a better
fingering than 1,2,4,5, please let me know.

[Matthew]

1-2-3-5

Post by Robert Steinberg

Post by A totally insignificant person.
I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.

I believe 'never' is not the case...more of don't if there are better
choices in a moving passage. I don't think you'll find and scales that
start on black keys with the thumb.
I've just been reading Act 2 of "Tosca". There's beautiful inversion of
Eb-7 (Db, Gb, Bb, Eb) in the right hand. If someone has a better
fingering than 1,2,4,5, please let me know.
--
Robert Steinberg
MidiOpera.Com

[Robert Steinberg]

Post by Matthew
1-2-3-5

Thanks but the shape of my hand makes 1-2-4-5 a more comfortable
stretch. The 3-5 alternative has me bending my wrist to the right. It's
really a six of one / half dozen of the other choice. It keeps the thumb
on a black key.

Post by Matthew

Post by Robert Steinberg
Eb-7 (Db, Gb, Bb, Eb) in the right hand. If someone has a better
fingering than 1,2,4,5, please let me know.

[David Bruce Murray]

Post by Robert Steinberg

Post by Matthew
1-2-3-5

Thanks but the shape of my hand makes 1-2-4-5 a more comfortable
stretch. The 3-5 alternative has me bending my wrist to the right. It's
really a six of one / half dozen of the other choice. It keeps the thumb
on a black key

Is this a solid chord or a melodic passage?

[Robert Steinberg]

Post by David Bruce Murray
Is this a solid chord or a melodic passage?

It is a solid chord...with the "roll it" squiggle. But my point is,
there's no way to avoid a thumb on a black key in a chord that is all
black keys.

[David Bruce Murray]

Post by Robert Steinberg

Post by David Bruce Murray
Is this a solid chord or a melodic passage?

It is a solid chord...with the "roll it" squiggle. But my point is,
there's no way to avoid a thumb on a black key in a chord that is all
black keys.

I realize that...I was just trying to imagine playing it so that using 4 on
the B-flat rather than 3 would be preferable. I could imagine it working if
it was a roll, but not as a solid chord...so you answered my question. You
must have long fingers.

[Piano Fan]

If Hanon be anywhere true, the thumb is used often used in arpeggios in
various keys, octaves, chords, by his fingering.

Post by A totally insignificant person.
I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.
Why?

[Marc Sabatella]

Post by A totally insignificant person.
I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.

Never? That's too strong. But common sense should suggest you don't
use your thumb on black keys as much as other fingers - it's by far the
shortest finger, and the black keys are further from you than the white
keys. Try putting your right pinky on G, then 4 on F, 3 on E, and 2 on
D. If the next note you needed to play were C#, would you want to play
that with your thumb? You'd be much better off choosing a fingering
that didn't force you into that, such as starting on 4, going 4-3-2-1
and then crossing over with 3 or 4 to play the C#. There are many other
such situations where it *obviously* wouldn't make sense to use your
thumb. But on the other hand, if you had to play C# in octaves, there's
pretyt much no other way to do it than 1-5.

---------------
Marc Sabatella
***@outsideshore.com

Music, art, & educational materials
Featuring "A Jazz Improvisation Primer"
http://www.outsideshore.com/

[David Bruce Murray]

Post by Marc Sabatella

Post by A totally insignificant person.
I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.

Never? That's too strong.

Very true...how else would you play a G-flat major triad in one hand with
the root doubled an octave higher? 2-3-4-5? I think not.

That being said, I can't think of any situations where it would be
preferable to use the thumb on a black note when playing a scale-type,
melodic passage. It's easier to play all scales with 2-3-4 taking care of
the black notes. Maybe that's what the context of the statement was that
prompted the comment...a scale type passage.

[Patrick L]

Post by A totally insignificant person.
I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.
Why?

I rarely use my thumbs on black keys for scales, but I do on arpeggios and
chords and perhaps intervals and octaves. Common sense dictates, it's
fairly obvious why when you do it.


Patrick

[clavier]

It is not true that you should never play black keys with your thumbs. If
you were playing octaves or large chords spanning an octave on black keys,
you would certainly have to use the thumb. Probably what you read was
referring to single note passages such as scales and arpeggios. The reason
not to use the thumb is for convenience. Since the thumb is short and
doesn't extend nearly as far as the other fingers, and the black keys are in
further than the white keys, it is normally more convenient to use the
longer fingers on the black keys. But there are always exceptions, and you
have to decide for yourself if in a particular passage you can achieve the
sound you want better with the thumb on a black key.

Post by A totally insignificant person.
I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.
Why?

[mr waddles]

Didn't you know the thumb is the strongest finger? I black keys "all
the time":) with my thumb.

[Tim Roberts]

Post by mr waddles
Didn't you know the thumb is the strongest finger? I black keys "all
the time":) with my thumb.

When playing pure scales, one never uses the thumb on black keys. All
piano students are taught this.

In "real live music", of course one uses the thumb. You can't play chords
without it. But when the piece calls for a scale, that old training kicks
in, and the thumb almost always sticks to the white keys.

[[e-mail]]

Post by A totally insignificant person.
I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.
Why?

Hey Black Keys Fans,

My guitar lesson site, StrumSchool, posted a page about How to Sound Like Black Keys. It covers the type of guitar used, its effects and amps. I'd love for you to check it out and, if you like what you see, share it with your page.

HOW TO SOUND LIKE THE BLACK KEYS
http://www.strumschool.com/how-to-make-awesome-guitar-sounds/how-to-sound-like-the-black-keys

Thanks!


Benjamin Shapiro
Founder of StrumSchool.com

[J.B. Wood]

Post by ***@strumschool.com

Post by A totally insignificant person.
I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.
Why?

Hey Black Keys Fans,
My guitar lesson site, StrumSchool, posted a page about How to Sound Like Black Keys. It covers the type of guitar used, its effects and amps. I'd love for you to check it out and, if you like what you see, share it with your page.
HOW TO SOUND LIKE THE BLACK KEYS
http://www.strumschool.com/how-to-make-awesome-guitar-sounds/how-to-sound-like-the-black-keys
Thanks!
Benjamin Shapiro
Founder of StrumSchool.com

Hello, and you've clearly posted to a piano-oriented ng. "Sound like
the black keys"? Hmmm.....Last time I checked the only distinction
between say a piece (not containing chromatic notes) performed in the
key of C (white piano keys only) and say C# (all 5 black keys, 2 white)
was one of pitch. I'm assuming the piano is tuned in the customary
equal temperament. Perhaps you have absolute pitch and a preference for
certain musical pitch ranges? Sincerely,

[Pete]

Post by ***@strumschool.com

On Friday, April 14, 2006 12:33:50 AM UTC+8, A totally insignificant

Post by A totally insignificant person.
I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.

Hey Black Keys Fans,
My guitar lesson site, StrumSchool, posted a page about How to Sound

Like Black Keys. It covers the type of guitar used, its effects and
amps. I'd love for you to check it out and, if you like what you see,
share it with your page.

HOW TO SOUND LIKE THE BLACK KEYS
[....]

Hello, and you've clearly posted to a piano-oriented ng. "Sound like
the black keys"? Hmmm.....Last time I checked the only distinction
between say a piece (not containing chromatic notes) performed in the
key of C (white piano keys only) and say C# (all 5 black keys, 2 white)
was one of pitch. I'm assuming the piano is tuned in the customary
equal temperament. Perhaps you have absolute pitch and a preference for
certain musical pitch ranges? Sincerely,

It's possible you're being facetious (:-)), but it sounds more like
you've missed the fact that "The Black Keys" are a rock group...

What's really funny is that the poster who sparked your reply
obviously just scanned gigglegroups or somewhere for the words
"black keys", without paying any attention to the context.
As a result, his 'response' is to an article from six years ago!
(and of course totally irrelevant to the original query...)

-- Pete --

[J.B. Wood]

Post by Pete

Post by ***@strumschool.com

On Friday, April 14, 2006 12:33:50 AM UTC+8, A totally insignificant

Post by A totally insignificant person.
I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.

Hey Black Keys Fans,
My guitar lesson site, StrumSchool, posted a page about How to Sound

Like Black Keys. It covers the type of guitar used, its effects and
amps. I'd love for you to check it out and, if you like what you see,
share it with your page.

HOW TO SOUND LIKE THE BLACK KEYS
[....]

Hello, and you've clearly posted to a piano-oriented ng. "Sound like
the black keys"? Hmmm.....Last time I checked the only distinction
between say a piece (not containing chromatic notes) performed in the
key of C (white piano keys only) and say C# (all 5 black keys, 2 white)
was one of pitch. I'm assuming the piano is tuned in the customary
equal temperament. Perhaps you have absolute pitch and a preference for
certain musical pitch ranges? Sincerely,

It's possible you're being facetious (:-)), but it sounds more like
you've missed the fact that "The Black Keys" are a rock group...
What's really funny is that the poster who sparked your reply
obviously just scanned gigglegroups or somewhere for the words
"black keys", without paying any attention to the context.
As a result, his 'response' is to an article from six years ago!
(and of course totally irrelevant to the original query...)
-- Pete --

Aha! Your response made my day. When one is 62 years old one is often
unaware of many extant pop/rock groups. BTW, as a result of a recent
CBS "60 Minutes" segment I discovered that Brit pop singer Adele. She's
got quite a set of pipes. Sincerely,

[Pete]

Post by J.B. Wood

Post by Pete

Post by J.B. Wood

On Friday, April 14, 2006 12:33:50 AM UTC+8, A totally insignificant

Post by A totally insignificant person.
I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.

Hey Black Keys Fans,
HOW TO SOUND LIKE THE BLACK KEYS
[....]

Hello, and you've clearly posted to a piano-oriented ng. "Sound like
the black keys"? [....]

It's possible you're being facetious (:-)), but it sounds more like
you've missed the fact that "The Black Keys" are a rock group...
What's really funny is that the poster who sparked your reply
obviously just scanned gigglegroups or somewhere for the words
"black keys", without paying any attention to the context.
As a result, his 'response' is to an article from six years ago!
(and of course totally irrelevant to the original query...)

Aha! Your response made my day. When one is 62 years old one is often
unaware of many extant pop/rock groups. BTW, as a result of a recent
CBS "60 Minutes" segment I discovered that Brit pop singer Adele. She's
got quite a set of pipes. Sincerely,

Happy to provide some amusement... (:-))

Yes, Adele is one of my current favourites. Actually my personal opinion
is that there's quite a lot of good stuff around these days. I think
things have improved since the big musicorps have lost some of their
grip [and which Americal Idol is trying its damndest to grab back!].

Another voice I like is Brandi Carlile (no, I'm not misspelling that!)
She's from the US (West Coast) and has a very distinctive and attractive
voice and style. (If they ever show it again, check out her 'Austin
City Limits' appearance on PBS.)

OTOH it's pretty easy to find the bad stuff, too. (:-/) I biked a few
miles yesterday evening to check out a free waterfront concert by the
'Young Digerati'. Very disappointing to find that most of the sound
was just prerecorded on a laptop! The front man just held down the
occasional chord on his keyboard, while guitar and bass just strummed.
I didn't stay long... The group last week was very good, though, so you
never can tell.

-- Pete --

[Unclefred]

Post by A totally insignificant person.
I read somewhere that you should never play the black keys with your
thumbs.
Why?

OK. First "never" is an extreme genralization. I have seen
music where it's impossible to play a passage properly without a thumb
on a black key. There's one in Chopin's Sonnata in B flat minor, for
instance.
Thumbs are generally shorter that fingers and can reach the white
keys easier. Fingering is all about making the notes easy to play, and
using the correct fingers to advantage in accenting the notes. The
thumb is a "clunker" and has greater strength than the other fingers.
the pinky, (5), is usually weak. So 2,3,and 4 can be thought of as the
"singing fingers." They make the music "sing" when you're looking for a
good sound. There are tradoffs between these two objectives. Where
convenient, it's great to use the thumb on the downbeat or an accented
note.
Then finger exercises help even out the "touch" of the different
fingers to give the pianist more options in fingering. A good piano
teacher can stand well away from a student playing the piano and correct
the fingering without even looking at the student. My teacher was
William Stevens, who was a concert pianist and used to do USO shows with
Bob Hope. I was playing something, I forget what, and he called out
from the other side of the room, "NO! Put your 4 on B flat!" I said,
"How did you know that?" and he said, "I heard it!" There was a little
break in the rhythm because I had used the wrong fingering. Later he
told me that he couldn't really tell me what fingering I had used, but
he knew it wasn't the right fingering. He was playing the piece along
with me in his mind.