pedalling in Liebestraum

[Hownow]

A very specific question here, but I'll try to phrase it in general, as
well.

First the specific: how would one best pedal in the fifteenth and sixteenth
measure of Liszt's Liebestraum? Specifically, I'm thinking of the
transition between measures, where the right hand plays D then E, and the
left hand has a C to G 12th span chord at the right hand's E. I have to
break the left hand chord, so I end up playing RH D, then left hand C, then
LH G with RH E.

In general, I guess that pedal should be cleared when a non-harmonic note is
played over whatever notes are already pedalled, more or less? Which would
mean that, in the specific place in question, I would pump pedal just before
the RH D (which conflicts with the pedaled notes from the second half of the
fifteenth measure), and immediately re-pedal before RH E, which conflicts
with the D? Or maybe I could leave the pedal off during the D, and start
the pedal again at the left hand C.

I know this all might come down to a matter of taste, but my teacher isn't
happy with how I do it, and I can't seem to get a clear explanation from him
of what he's after.

[Mizz Marcia Ryder]

Post by Hownow
A very specific question here, but I'll try to phrase it in general, as
well.
First the specific: how would one best pedal in the fifteenth and sixteenth
measure of Liszt's Liebestraum? Specifically, I'm thinking of the
transition between measures, where the right hand plays D then E, and the
left hand has a C to G 12th span chord at the right hand's E. I have to
break the left hand chord, so I end up playing RH D, then left hand C, then
LH G with RH E.

That division of hands between the last note of m.15 and the first chord of
m. 16 is appropriate.

Post by Hownow
In general, I guess that pedal should be cleared when a non-harmonic note is
played over whatever notes are already pedalled, more or less?

Not necessarily in Romantic music. A little sumuding is allowed. One
should still play the melody legato. Practice some without the pedal,
then add the pedal as an effect to lightly smudge the line. Maybe use
half pedal if the piano you're playing has that capability.

Post by Hownow
Which would
mean that, in the specific place in question, I would pump pedal just before
the RH D (which conflicts with the pedaled notes from the second half of the
fifteenth measure), and immediately re-pedal before RH E, which conflicts
with the D? Or maybe I could leave the pedal off during the D, and start
the pedal again at the left hand C.

I play the RH D with the pedal still down from beat 3 with the 2nd finger,
then quick pump the pedal to catch the LH C (like a quick pickup) while
turning my RH thumb under to keep the melody legato. By the time your
thumb gets to the E-nat in m. 16, the pedal has already caught the LH. C.
Also I play the LH G a little bit before the RH E-nat. melody note.
(sort of like a Chopin-esk melody rubato). The goal is to make the
RH inner melody sound like the top note of an arpeggio, giving it a
harp effect.

Post by Hownow
I know this all might come down to a matter of taste, but my teacher isn't
happy with how I do it, and I can't seem to get a clear explanation from him
of what he's after.

With the cresc. into m. 16 and using the thumb on the RH E-nat you get
a natural accent on the E-nat plus you pick up the full sonority of the
C major chord at m.16. The first beat melody note does not sound
abrupt as long as you continue the crescendo through to the first beat
of m.17. Perhaps that is what you teacher isn't happy with; the shape
of the phrase.

I would say that your teacher *should* be able to explain what he
wants you to do. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, he may just
be wanting *you* to explore and figure out what to do. That"s
part of learning to play. Some teacher never teach their students
how to think for themselves.

HTH,
Marsha

[Hownow]

Post by Mizz Marcia Ryder
Not necessarily in Romantic music. A little sumuding is allowed. One
should still play the melody legato. Practice some without the pedal,
then add the pedal as an effect to lightly smudge the line. Maybe use
half pedal if the piano you're playing has that capability.

My teacher was telling me to "half pedal" but I didn't understand exactly
what it meant. I was under the impression that the damper is either
touching the strings, or not.

Post by Mizz Marcia Ryder

Post by Hownow
Which would
mean that, in the specific place in question, I would pump pedal just

before

Post by Hownow
the RH D (which conflicts with the pedaled notes from the second half of

the

Post by Hownow
fifteenth measure), and immediately re-pedal before RH E, which conflicts
with the D? Or maybe I could leave the pedal off during the D, and start
the pedal again at the left hand C.

I play the RH D with the pedal still down from beat 3 with the 2nd finger,
then quick pump the pedal to catch the LH C (like a quick pickup) while
turning my RH thumb under to keep the melody legato. By the time your
thumb gets to the E-nat in m. 16, the pedal has already caught the LH. C.
Also I play the LH G a little bit before the RH E-nat. melody note.
(sort of like a Chopin-esk melody rubato). The goal is to make the
RH inner melody sound like the top note of an arpeggio, giving it a
harp effect.

That's an interesting way to play it. I have to speed up my c-g transition
to pull that off well, I think. Do you play most other broken chords in
that song similarly? I.e., just before the melody note at which they're
indicated, to create a harp-effect?

Post by Mizz Marcia Ryder
HTH,

It did, thank you.