Why not buy a Yamaha P60?

[Graham Wood]

I'm looking to purchase a digital piano. My selection criteria are (in
order of importance)

1. Full size keyboard
2. Piano like sound (at least one that inspires me to play more, others
are nice to have)
3. Weighted Keys
4. at least 32 note polyphony
5. Portability as I have limited space available
6. on board speakers for the same reason (plus convenience).
7. Reasonable price (under 1000 Euros if I can manage to get it to my
house in Ireland for that price)
8. Midi connectability
9. Onboard sequencer
10. Pleasant appearance

I've been surfing the net for a few months and lurking here for a couple
of weeks. I've tried a Yamaha P60 and I thought the feel of the piano
was strange at first but the tone was lovely after I got used to the
weight (I'd been used to playing a terrible electric keyboard).

As far as I've been able to learn from the available bumph, the
differences between the P60 and the more expensive P120 or P250 are all
in the extra bells and whistles like an extra few thousand notes
storable in the sequencer or lots more voices I'll probably never use.
I've ruled out the P80 and P90 as they've no speakers built in.

Can anyone tell me why I should not buy a P60? I tried out a Casio PS20
and marginally prefered the action but it was significantly dearer. I
also didn't try them in the same place on the same day so it was hard to
recall one while playing the other.

Does anyone have a P60 that they hate and wish they'd never bought?

Thanks

Graham

[ptooner]

Post by Graham Wood
I'm looking to purchase a digital piano. My selection criteria are (in
order of importance)
1. Full size keyboard
2. Piano like sound (at least one that inspires me to play more, others
are nice to have)
3. Weighted Keys
4. at least 32 note polyphony
5. Portability as I have limited space available
6. on board speakers for the same reason (plus convenience).
7. Reasonable price (under 1000 Euros if I can manage to get it to my
house in Ireland for that price)
8. Midi connectability
9. Onboard sequencer
10. Pleasant appearance
I've been surfing the net for a few months and lurking here for a couple
of weeks. I've tried a Yamaha P60 and I thought the feel of the piano
was strange at first but the tone was lovely after I got used to the
weight (I'd been used to playing a terrible electric keyboard).
As far as I've been able to learn from the available bumph, the
differences between the P60 and the more expensive P120 or P250 are all
in the extra bells and whistles like an extra few thousand notes
storable in the sequencer or lots more voices I'll probably never use.
I've ruled out the P80 and P90 as they've no speakers built in.
Can anyone tell me why I should not buy a P60? I tried out a Casio PS20
and marginally prefered the action but it was significantly dearer. I
also didn't try them in the same place on the same day so it was hard to
recall one while playing the other.
Does anyone have a P60 that they hate and wish they'd never bought?
Thanks
Graham

Did I understand that Casio has an instrument that is MORE expensive than a
Yamaha? If true, I'm amazed. As to your questions, I'm pretty sure that
the P60 does not have a sequencer. I play a P80 like a huge percentage of
pros, and we play it for it's piano abilities both touch and sound. I think
the P60 has the same touch and similar sound. If you have been playing
keyboard and not piano, you need to decide what you want, the two
instruments are quite different. Only you can determine whether you like
the sound, but the Yamaha is certainly one of the best actions out there.

Gerry

[Hmmm...]

Does the P60 have on board speakers? I didn't think so, but I could be
wrong.

Post by Graham Wood
I'm looking to purchase a digital piano. My selection criteria are (in
order of importance)
1. Full size keyboard
2. Piano like sound (at least one that inspires me to play more, others
are nice to have)
3. Weighted Keys
4. at least 32 note polyphony
5. Portability as I have limited space available
6. on board speakers for the same reason (plus convenience).
7. Reasonable price (under 1000 Euros if I can manage to get it to my
house in Ireland for that price)
8. Midi connectability
9. Onboard sequencer
10. Pleasant appearance
I've been surfing the net for a few months and lurking here for a couple
of weeks. I've tried a Yamaha P60 and I thought the feel of the piano
was strange at first but the tone was lovely after I got used to the
weight (I'd been used to playing a terrible electric keyboard).
As far as I've been able to learn from the available bumph, the
differences between the P60 and the more expensive P120 or P250 are all
in the extra bells and whistles like an extra few thousand notes
storable in the sequencer or lots more voices I'll probably never use.
I've ruled out the P80 and P90 as they've no speakers built in.
Can anyone tell me why I should not buy a P60? I tried out a Casio PS20
and marginally prefered the action but it was significantly dearer. I
also didn't try them in the same place on the same day so it was hard to
recall one while playing the other.
Does anyone have a P60 that they hate and wish they'd never bought?
Thanks
Graham

[Graham Wood]

Post by Hmmm...
Does the P60 have on board speakers? I didn't think so, but I could be
wrong.

Yes it does. P80 and P90 don't then you get them again with the P120.

Graham

Post by Hmmm...

Post by Graham Wood
I'm looking to purchase a digital piano. My selection criteria are (in
order of importance)
1. Full size keyboard
2. Piano like sound (at least one that inspires me to play more, others
are nice to have)
3. Weighted Keys
4. at least 32 note polyphony
5. Portability as I have limited space available
6. on board speakers for the same reason (plus convenience).
7. Reasonable price (under 1000 Euros if I can manage to get it to my
house in Ireland for that price)
8. Midi connectability
9. Onboard sequencer
10. Pleasant appearance
I've been surfing the net for a few months and lurking here for a couple
of weeks. I've tried a Yamaha P60 and I thought the feel of the piano
was strange at first but the tone was lovely after I got used to the
weight (I'd been used to playing a terrible electric keyboard).
As far as I've been able to learn from the available bumph, the
differences between the P60 and the more expensive P120 or P250 are all
in the extra bells and whistles like an extra few thousand notes
storable in the sequencer or lots more voices I'll probably never use.
I've ruled out the P80 and P90 as they've no speakers built in.
Can anyone tell me why I should not buy a P60? I tried out a Casio PS20
and marginally prefered the action but it was significantly dearer. I
also didn't try them in the same place on the same day so it was hard to
recall one while playing the other.
Does anyone have a P60 that they hate and wish they'd never bought?
Thanks
Graham

[Engineer]

Well, if you really must have on-board speakers...

Actually, headphones sound much, much better... and a separate stereo
amplifier with two medium to large speakers sounds nearly as good as
phones.

Look at any of the on-board speakers and think "Low A = 27.5 Hz on an
88 key piano". Then do a reality check on the physics - the
wavelength is 40 feet! - it just doesn't work out of a cheap, small
speaker. On-board speakers will monitor the tune, plus a little bit
more...

For the record, I play my General Music PRO1 stage piano through
Sennheiser HD570 phones (wonderful - the sound, not my playing!), also
through a 120 watt (60 wpc) stereo amplifier and either:
1) a pair of Ditton 15 speakers from the late 1960's - they go down to
about 40 Hz, or
2) a pair of 3 cu.ft, 12 inch woofer, 3-way home made speakers, circa
1979 - they go down to 30 Hz.
Both sets of speakers give very good, but different, sound.

Of course, I've played built-in speaker pianos in stores... don't like
'em at all, and somewhere in the price you have to pay for them!

Cheers,

Roger

Post by Hmmm...
Does the P60 have on board speakers? I didn't think so, but I could be
wrong.

Post by Graham Wood
I'm looking to purchase a digital piano. My selection criteria are (in
order of importance)
1. Full size keyboard
2. Piano like sound (at least one that inspires me to play more, others
are nice to have)
3. Weighted Keys
4. at least 32 note polyphony
5. Portability as I have limited space available
6. on board speakers for the same reason (plus convenience).
7. Reasonable price (under 1000 Euros if I can manage to get it to my
house in Ireland for that price)
8. Midi connectability
9. Onboard sequencer
10. Pleasant appearance
I've been surfing the net for a few months and lurking here for a couple
of weeks. I've tried a Yamaha P60 and I thought the feel of the piano
was strange at first but the tone was lovely after I got used to the
weight (I'd been used to playing a terrible electric keyboard).
As far as I've been able to learn from the available bumph, the
differences between the P60 and the more expensive P120 or P250 are all
in the extra bells and whistles like an extra few thousand notes
storable in the sequencer or lots more voices I'll probably never use.
I've ruled out the P80 and P90 as they've no speakers built in.
Can anyone tell me why I should not buy a P60? I tried out a Casio PS20
and marginally prefered the action but it was significantly

dearer. I

Post by Hmmm...

Post by Graham Wood
also didn't try them in the same place on the same day so it was hard to
recall one while playing the other.
Does anyone have a P60 that they hate and wish they'd never

bought?

Post by Hmmm...

Post by Graham Wood
Thanks
Graham

[CB]

Hi,

I'm just starting to learn the piano and I've got a P60 for about a year
now. So far, nothing to complain. It comes with built-in speakers, which is
great for when you want to play at home without bothering with cables/amps
etc. The "keybed", as they call it, is similar to the P120, but technically
it has a polyphony of only 32, as opposed to (if I'm not wrong) 64 of the
120. That means it can only play 32 notes at a time, which, as you evolve
into more sophisticated harmonic playing, with those 5-or-more-note chords,
can become a problem. But I thought that is too far away from my stage of
learning, so I didn't bother.

Also, the P60 looks much nicer than the P120 (I really didn't like that wood
finish P120 has).

There is one problem with the P60 if you intend to play in gigs. I'm not
sure this is a P60-only problem, though. Besides its weight (which, I guess,
should be less than that of P120), its bottom doesn't have a hard-plastic
finish as the top and sides. It has a sort of hardened cardboard-like
material (I really don't know how to call it, but you are probably familiar
with it if you ever saw the rear of cheap all-in-one stereo equipment.) I
just doesn't look like it would resist repeated use with a portable stand.

I hope that helps,

CB

Post by Graham Wood
I'm looking to purchase a digital piano. My selection criteria are (in
order of importance)
1. Full size keyboard
2. Piano like sound (at least one that inspires me to play more, others
are nice to have)
3. Weighted Keys
4. at least 32 note polyphony
5. Portability as I have limited space available
6. on board speakers for the same reason (plus convenience).
7. Reasonable price (under 1000 Euros if I can manage to get it to my
house in Ireland for that price)
8. Midi connectability
9. Onboard sequencer
10. Pleasant appearance
I've been surfing the net for a few months and lurking here for a couple
of weeks. I've tried a Yamaha P60 and I thought the feel of the piano
was strange at first but the tone was lovely after I got used to the
weight (I'd been used to playing a terrible electric keyboard).
As far as I've been able to learn from the available bumph, the
differences between the P60 and the more expensive P120 or P250 are all
in the extra bells and whistles like an extra few thousand notes
storable in the sequencer or lots more voices I'll probably never use.
I've ruled out the P80 and P90 as they've no speakers built in.
Can anyone tell me why I should not buy a P60? I tried out a Casio PS20
and marginally prefered the action but it was significantly dearer. I
also didn't try them in the same place on the same day so it was hard to
recall one while playing the other.
Does anyone have a P60 that they hate and wish they'd never bought?
Thanks
Graham

[Heywood Jablomie]

Post by CB
It has a sort of hardened cardboard-like
material (I really don't know how to call it, but you are probably familiar
with it if you ever saw the rear of cheap all-in-one stereo equipment.) I
just doesn't look like it would resist repeated use with a portable stand

It's called masonite

[Marc Sabatella]

Post by CB
technically
it has a polyphony of only 32, as opposed to (if I'm not wrong) 64 of the
120. That means it can only play 32 notes at a time, which, as you evolve
into more sophisticated harmonic playing, with those 5-or-more-note chords,
can become a problem. But I thought that is too far away from my stage of
learning, so I didn't bother.

Actually, it is use of the pedal that causes one to run out of notes,
more so than how many notes are in the chord. It actually doesn't take
all that much to hit 32, although if you are a beginner, it probably
isn't something you're going to run up against any time soon, nor would
you necessarily notice if you did, nor would it necessarily be a huge
problem in any case.

--------------
Marc Sabatella
***@outsideshore.com

The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/

[Steve Evans]

On Sat, 29 May 2004 14:49:45 -0600, "Marc Sabatella"

Post by CB

Post by CB
technically
it has a polyphony of only 32, as opposed to (if I'm not wrong) 64 of

the

Post by CB
120. That means it can only play 32 notes at a time, which, as you

evolve

Sorry. I'm obviously missing something here. Since, unless you are a
mutant, you only have 10 fingers, why would you need to be able to
play any more than 10 notes at a time???

[David]

Post by Steve Evans
On Sat, 29 May 2004 14:49:45 -0600, "Marc Sabatella"

Post by CB

Post by CB
technically
it has a polyphony of only 32, as opposed to (if I'm not wrong) 64 of

the

Post by CB
120. That means it can only play 32 notes at a time, which, as you

evolve

Sorry. I'm obviously missing something here. Since, unless you are a
mutant, you only have 10 fingers, why would you need to be able to
play any more than 10 notes at a time???

Sustain pedal.

Two recording tracks plus live play.

That's a start, any way.

David

[Wayne Fulton]

In article <r-udnbb40OaQODfcRVn-***@adelphia.com>, ***@adelphia.net
says...

Post by David
Sustain pedal.
Two recording tracks plus live play.
That's a start, any way.

Except the P60 has no recording capability.

And there are other limitations too. Awkward controls require the user
manual to make a change or set the metronome, no dynamic sampling, and no
half pedaling (the P60 unit and pedal jack has half pedal capability, but
it ships with a simple pedal that cannot do it).

[Brian Young]

Post by Wayne Fulton
Except the P60 has no recording capability.
And there are other limitations too. Awkward controls require the user
manual to make a change or set the metronome, no dynamic sampling, and no
half pedaling (the P60 unit and pedal jack has half pedal capability, but
it ships with a simple pedal that cannot do it).

I own a P60. Considering the price I think it's a good deal. No way
could I afford the P120; the P60 was a real stretch for my income. To
replace the recording capability, a cheap Yamaha USB MIDI to my
computer does the same thing allowing you to play back through the P60.
The midi to computer gives as many features as you can find software
for so I think it's a good thing.

The controls are very simple. They are for the mostly marked on the
keyboard actually. It comes with a card stock cheat sheet with the
extra controls such as reverb on it. You won't need to refer to the
manual. If you can memorize piano music, remembering how to press a
button and a piano key at the same should be easy!

The basic pedal can do half pedaling but it's not as easy; buy the
regular pedal. The P60 is a good bargain for those of us who could in
no way afford the P120 with nice stand (the black p60 uses the same
stand as the p120). It is the budget model so you lose some features,
most of which can be cheaply regained.

The major consideration is probably the polyphony, which is smart about
how it retains notes. I don't think it's noticable at all when I play
pieces like Un Sospiro and Ravel. I have posted recordings on message
boards and no one ever mentioned it being a problem. Even doing a
glissando with the pedal doesn't give a really noticable effect of note
drops. I'd be suprised to hear from unhappy actual owners of the p60
though unless they were expecting a very cheap real steinway grand
piano.

Brian
http://www.sketchee.com

[Steve Evans]

Post by Brian Young
The major consideration is probably the polyphony, which is smart about
how it retains notes. I don't think it's noticable at all when I play
pieces like Un Sospiro and Ravel. I have posted recordings on message
boards and no one ever mentioned it being a problem. Even doing a
glissando with the pedal doesn't give a really noticable effect of note
drops. I'd be suprised to hear from unhappy actual owners of the p60
though unless they were expecting a very cheap real steinway grand
piano

I can't help you there. I've got a p60 too and it's great. I don't
need any fancy features; just a convincing, real piano weighted action
with 88 keys and a GREAT voice. The p60 is just the job!

[Michael Wright]

When you are playing a real piano with 88 note polyphony sympathetic
notes will sound while using a sustain pedal as well as the ones you just
played. You also may want to set a large chords ( i.e. Prelude in C#minor)
have long pedaling sections where note are resounded (Moonlight Sonata) or
set bass notes when playing left hand jazz chords. Try this on a digital
piano with 32 polyphony and you will hear the notes dropping off in order of
play. Just roll up or down the keyboard, it sounds terrible. Regards
Michael

Post by Steve Evans
On Sat, 29 May 2004 14:49:45 -0600, "Marc Sabatella"

Post by CB

Post by CB
technically
it has a polyphony of only 32, as opposed to (if I'm not wrong) 64 of

the

Post by CB
120. That means it can only play 32 notes at a time, which, as you

evolve

Sorry. I'm obviously missing something here. Since, unless you are a
mutant, you only have 10 fingers, why would you need to be able to
play any more than 10 notes at a time???
--
Fat, sugar, salt, beer: the four essentials for a healthy diet.

[james of tucson]

Post by Steve Evans
Sorry. I'm obviously missing something here. Since, unless you are a
mutant, you only have 10 fingers, why would you need to be able to
play any more than 10 notes at a time???

Notes on a piano tend to sustain. They resonate even if you don't use
the pedal. If you do use the pedal, consider how many notes are
sounding, say, during the life of an arpeggio. If you run out of
voices, and you will with only 32 voices, it is an annyoing, un-musical
and decidedly un-pianistic effect.

If you are playing more than one patch, say Piano + Strings, your
polyphony is halved.

[Anthony Giorgianni]

And if you are orchestrating many instruments, you end up losing numbers
fast!!! And some synthesizers, like my Clavinova CVP-79a (64 polyphony) --
use two elements for some of the voices. That's also true for stereo voices.
Try a sustained glissando of all the white keys and you're finished :O)
--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.

Post by james of tucson

Post by Steve Evans
Sorry. I'm obviously missing something here. Since, unless you are a
mutant, you only have 10 fingers, why would you need to be able to
play any more than 10 notes at a time???

Notes on a piano tend to sustain. They resonate even if you don't use
the pedal. If you do use the pedal, consider how many notes are
sounding, say, during the life of an arpeggio. If you run out of
voices, and you will with only 32 voices, it is an annyoing, un-musical
and decidedly un-pianistic effect.
If you are playing more than one patch, say Piano + Strings, your
polyphony is halved.

[james of tucson]

Post by Anthony Giorgianni
And if you are orchestrating many instruments, you end up losing numbers
fast!!!

Oh, yes! I don't think of the 128 voices on my Roland XV as "surplus",
considering that each tone can be (and usually is) made of 4 separate
parts.

[Gary Rimar]

Post by Steve Evans
On Sat, 29 May 2004 14:49:45 -0600, "Marc Sabatella"

Post by CB

Post by CB
technically
it has a polyphony of only 32, as opposed to (if I'm not wrong) 64 of

the

Post by CB
120. That means it can only play 32 notes at a time, which, as you

evolve

Sorry. I'm obviously missing something here. Since, unless you are a
mutant, you only have 10 fingers, why would you need to be able to
play any more than 10 notes at a time???

Can you say Glissando? If you hold down the sustain pedal and do a
glissando, you'll exceed 32 notes quite quickly.

Also, while one need not be a mutant, some people compose some rather
interesting stuff on the MIDI which can push past 32 notes.

[Jeff]

Post by Gary Rimar
Can you say Glissando? If you hold down the sustain pedal and do a
glissando, you'll exceed 32 notes quite quickly.

But....anyone that would play a glissando while pressing the sustain
pedal *deserves* a polyphony shortage.

[n***@gmail.com]

Post by Graham Wood
I'm looking to purchase a digital piano. My selection criteria are (in
order of importance)
1. Full size keyboard
2. Piano like sound (at least one that inspires me to play more, others
are nice to have)
3. Weighted Keys
4. at least 32 note polyphony
5. Portability as I have limited space available
6. on board speakers for the same reason (plus convenience).
7. Reasonable price (under 1000 Euros if I can manage to get it to my
house in Ireland for that price)
8. Midi connectability
9. Onboard sequencer
10. Pleasant appearance
I've been surfing the net for a few months and lurking here for a couple
of weeks. I've tried a Yamaha P60 and I thought the feel of the piano
was strange at first but the tone was lovely after I got used to the
weight (I'd been used to playing a terrible electric keyboard).
As far as I've been able to learn from the available bumph, the
differences between the P60 and the more expensive P120 or P250 are all
in the extra bells and whistles like an extra few thousand notes
storable in the sequencer or lots more voices I'll probably never use.
I've ruled out the P80 and P90 as they've no speakers built in.
Can anyone tell me why I should not buy a P60? I tried out a Casio PS20
and marginally prefered the action but it was significantly dearer. I
also didn't try them in the same place on the same day so it was hard to
recall one while playing the other.
Does anyone have a P60 that they hate and wish they'd never bought?
Thanks
Graham

I've been using the Yamaha P60 for awhile now and there isnt anything to big to complain about, but if you get one, use the piano 2 voice. It sounds a lot better than piano 1.

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Graham Wood
I'm looking to purchase a digital piano. My selection criteria are (in
order of importance)
1. Full size keyboard
2. Piano like sound (at least one that inspires me to play more, others
are nice to have)
3. Weighted Keys
4. at least 32 note polyphony
5. Portability as I have limited space available
6. on board speakers for the same reason (plus convenience).
7. Reasonable price (under 1000 Euros if I can manage to get it to my
house in Ireland for that price)
8. Midi connectability
9. Onboard sequencer
10. Pleasant appearance
I've been surfing the net for a few months and lurking here for a couple
of weeks. I've tried a Yamaha P60 and I thought the feel of the piano
was strange at first but the tone was lovely after I got used to the
weight (I'd been used to playing a terrible electric keyboard).
As far as I've been able to learn from the available bumph, the
differences between the P60 and the more expensive P120 or P250 are all
in the extra bells and whistles like an extra few thousand notes
storable in the sequencer or lots more voices I'll probably never use.
I've ruled out the P80 and P90 as they've no speakers built in.
Can anyone tell me why I should not buy a P60? I tried out a Casio PS20
and marginally prefered the action but it was significantly dearer. I
also didn't try them in the same place on the same day so it was hard to
recall one while playing the other.
Does anyone have a P60 that they hate and wish they'd never bought?
Thanks
Graham

I've owned my P60 since 2004, and have come to realize I didn't make a good choice. The sound quality is fine, but the weighting of the keys is excessive - to the point of "clunky", when the note reaches the bottom of its travel, and that has a somewhat negative impact on my accuracy of playing- very frustrating. And that's bad, since I do all my piano playing gigs with this instrument, because it's portable. My Yamaha clavinova has an ideal key weighting, and I practise on it, but I can't take it out to play, because it's too big and heavy. Yamaha made another huge blunder on the design of the P60. they didn't include a separate output jack for amplification; the combined headphones/output jack, if you want external amplification, cuts out the on-board speakers of the instrument, and I don't like having the sound of the instrument sucked away from me so I have difficulty hearing what I'm playing. Yamaha really should have known better; this was a cheap, unjustified cost-cutting strategy that detracts from the usability of the instrument.