Tokai baby grand

[texaspaintbrush]

Greetings all. I've read your pertinent postings re: all things Tokai
as I'm going to look at a 5'1' at a piano storage facility that is
available for sale. I'm told it's 18 years old, and not much else. A
man who was a major dealer in Houston,Tx for 45 years found it for me
(he's a friend of a friend) and has no financial interest in the deal.
We're not sure how the instrument has been maintained, but they had the
smarts to put it into special storage, so maybe they've taken care of
it. I 'm hoping to take my piano tech guy to see it when it is
available to look at and listen to. They wanted $4,700 for it and have
come down to $4,200. They need to sell and stop paying for storage.
I am a flutist, by degree, and know a great deal about buying a flute.
I can play piano, but I am really buying this for my almost 9-year old
son who I homeschool, and has a feel for the piano. I realize there
was a lot of negativity about your postings re: Tokai's in general, but
if you could hear what I'm replacing! (a late 1950's Baldwin Acrosonic
spinet-with no volume in the top couple of octaves). Although, I also
have an old Jesse French tall upright, whose sound I love it is in
terrible shape, and not sure it would be worth the kind of money it
would take to fix.
I know this is a short grand, but I would think that even though the
soundboard is not much larger than some uprights, it can resonate from
the top and bottom of the soundboard as it is not against a wall like a
vertical. My house can't really handle anything larger (but I really
want a grand) as it's an old turn of the 20th century Texas
farmhouse-and they were poor farmers, so it's only 800 sq ft.
I would, of course, prefer a Yamaha, or older Steinway, or....but this
is the top of my budget.
WHAT DO YOU THINK? HELP

[polymod]

I think you should hire a piano tuner/tech to check it out completely.


Poly

[David McKay]

Post by polymod
I think you should hire a piano tuner/tech to check it out completely.

I agree with Poly, but would like to tell you that my Tokai grand [about 5
foot 6 inches I think] sounds great, though the top may be a little too
bright. Did you know these pianos are Steinway copies? Doesn't sound like a
Steinway, though!

I hope you find a great piano.

David McKay
www.davidmckay.info

[texaspaintbrush]

Post by David McKay

Post by polymod
I think you should hire a piano tuner/tech to check it out

completely.

Post by David McKay
I agree with Poly, but would like to tell you that my Tokai grand [about 5
foot 6 inches I think] sounds great, though the top may be a little too
bright. Did you know these pianos are Steinway copies? Doesn't sound like a
Steinway, though!
I hope you find a great piano.
David McKay
www.davidmckay.info

Didn't know these were Steinway copies...I did go and look at the piano
last week with the elder piano salesman from Houston. Firstly, it was
the very dark walnut color, which I wasn't prepared for, it's very
nice, couple of little marks on the arms, but will fix up easily...Not
exactly sure of the date, I think the serial number is 43180 if anyone
knows. After pulling the action, there was no evidence of the thing
ever really played-tiniest amount of wear on the felts...all leathers
looked new...good resonance...soundboard in good shape (ha ha), and
holding good torque on the pins... However, I don't they they EVER
tuned it, or had any work done...soo., I get to have it regulated,
brought up to pitch, and have some pedal work done, maybe some voicing.
The bottom three octaves actually sounded really great to me, but as
you got higher, the sound really deteriorated for me, perhaps partially
a function of the bad tuning-it should ultimately work out. It was
either bought as a pretty piece of furniture, or for the little girl,
now grown up, divorcing and getting the money to buy herself a used
car...sad trade off. It arrives next week....now to sell a piano and
clear a space in my 800sq.ft. house! Thanks everyone, and Polymod, re
the Vose & Sons, yes, guess you just hit a nerve...sorry.

[polymod]

Post by texaspaintbrush
I think the serial number is 43180 if anyone
knows.

Unfortunately, the book that I have in my home stopped at 1983 for Tokai
grands.
The last serial number for the year 1983 was 31451.
So, I'd guess the piano in question is from around 1985.

Post by texaspaintbrush
However, I don't (think) they they EVER
tuned it, ....> The bottom three octaves actually sounded really great to

me, but as

Post by texaspaintbrush
you got higher, the sound really deteriorated for me, perhaps partially
a function of the bad tuning.

Hehe...don't blame the tuner if it was never tuned<ggg>

Post by texaspaintbrush
Thanks everyone, and Polymod, re
the Vose & Sons, yes, guess you just hit a nerve...sorry.

No problemo. People get attached to pianos. I know. I'm trading in my 1964
Krakauer this week. The piano's a dog. But is was mine. And nothing will
ever replace it's value to me.

Cheers

Poly

[Beach Runner]

Post by polymod

Post by texaspaintbrush
I think the serial number is 43180 if anyone
knows.

Unfortunately, the book that I have in my home stopped at 1983 for Tokai
grands.
The last serial number for the year 1983 was 31451.
So, I'd guess the piano in question is from around 1985.

Post by texaspaintbrush
However, I don't (think) they they EVER
tuned it, ....> The bottom three octaves actually sounded really great to

me, but as

Post by texaspaintbrush
you got higher, the sound really deteriorated for me, perhaps partially
a function of the bad tuning.

Hehe...don't blame the tuner if it was never tuned<ggg>

Post by texaspaintbrush
Thanks everyone, and Polymod, re
the Vose & Sons, yes, guess you just hit a nerve...sorry.

No problemo. People get attached to pianos. I know. I'm trading in my 1964
Krakauer this week. The piano's a dog. But is was mine. And nothing will
ever replace it's value to me.
Cheers
Poly
+

Tokai's are made to slightly under bid Yamaha and Kauai in Japan. They
sell for like 10 per cent less. But in the US, you can buy them for
about 50% off. They are harder to re-sale latter. They have renner actions.
Good deal for a musician that will use it, and can judge the tone.

[texaspaintbrush]

Post by Beach Runner

Post by polymod

Post by texaspaintbrush
I think the serial number is 43180 if anyone
knows.

Unfortunately, the book that I have in my home stopped at 1983 for Tokai
grands.
The last serial number for the year 1983 was 31451.
So, I'd guess the piano in question is from around 1985.

Post by texaspaintbrush
However, I don't (think) they they EVER
tuned it, ....> The bottom three octaves actually sounded really great to

me, but as

Post by texaspaintbrush
you got higher, the sound really deteriorated for me, perhaps partially
a function of the bad tuning.

Hehe...don't blame the tuner if it was never tuned<ggg>

Post by texaspaintbrush
Thanks everyone, and Polymod, re
the Vose & Sons, yes, guess you just hit a nerve...sorry.

No problemo. People get attached to pianos. I know. I'm trading in my 1964
Krakauer this week. The piano's a dog. But is was mine. And nothing will
ever replace it's value to me.
Cheers
Poly
+

Tokai's are made to slightly under bid Yamaha and Kauai in Japan.

They

Post by Beach Runner
sell for like 10 per cent less. But in the US, you can buy them for
about 50% off. They are harder to re-sale latter. They have renner actions.
Good deal for a musician that will use it, and can judge the tone.

What exactly is "renner actions" (besides being obviously made of
plastic)? This plastic, by the way, was my ONE real bad feeling about
this piano, but I understand many(too many) piano makers are doing this
now in order to save money. How does this affect the sound, if at all,
and how does it hold up over time? By the way, said Tokai is supposed
to arrive this week sometime, and piano tech guy is coming out for a
couple of days to regulate and perform other magic tricks...I live far
from the city so he's got relatives in the area and is killing 2
birds...the whole deal was sorta friend of friend, and very, therefore,
friendly. It was really a joy, and I am so excited-the husband is
skeptical, but he'll come around eventually, I'm sure.
Thanks all.
lisa

[polymod]

Post by texaspaintbrush
What exactly is "renner actions" (besides being obviously made of
plastic)?

Lisa:
I think you may be interested in this:
http://www.rennerusa.com/

Good luck convincing the hubby.
My piano is arriving Thurdsday....
A Yamaha P22-black oak. I tune many of them in the school systems. Not a
great piano, but decent enough for a tuner<g>, the price was right, and the
wife has had a spot picked out for a couple of months ;)

ps: Forgive me for calling you "tex". I'd never disrespect a woman.

Poly

[texaspaintbrush]

Poly,
Thanks for the Renner site...very interesting-Noah, my 8 year old will
love it (the Tokai is actually FOR him). Should I be overly concerned
about the plastic in the action?
Question # 2...when the Toaki is delivered, I will have three pianos.
I need to sell the 1950's blonde Acrosonic. It's great looking, and a
family piano, but I can't imagine going back to the sound of it after
the Tokai. It is in good shape, rarely played before we got it, and
I'm thinking about asking between $1500 and $1800 (hoping to defray the
cost of the Tokai with this!)does this sound about right?
My 1930's Jesse French is another matter. I received it gratis as it
fell off a p/u truck on a freeway on ramp and broke the casing (mirror
remained intact!) and it has a great sound (& its inner beauty is
always exposed!). Fun to play, needs lots, can't do it, but it's in
upstairs in my fiber/music studio. Not an easy task to get it there
either-in a bucket of a tractor !
Don't worry too much about calling me tex-though I'm from California.
Texaspaintbrush is a pun really. They're a bright orange spring flower
(presently in bloom) and I do paint quite a bit. I live here out of
default, it is NOT the land of my heart.
Congrats on the Yamaha-that's really what I wanted to start with.
Lisa

Post by polymod

Post by texaspaintbrush
What exactly is "renner actions" (besides being obviously made of
plastic)?

http://www.rennerusa.com/
Good luck convincing the hubby.
My piano is arriving Thurdsday....
A Yamaha P22-black oak. I tune many of them in the school systems. Not a
great piano, but decent enough for a tuner<g>, the price was right, and the
wife has had a spot picked out for a couple of months ;)
ps: Forgive me for calling you "tex". I'd never disrespect a woman.
Poly

[Cy Shuster]

You should be no more worried about plastic in a modern piano action than
you are about plastic in your car's bumper, your motorcycle helmet, or the
safety glass in your windshield (seen any wooden motorcycle helmets
lately?).

Fifty years ago, the first plastics used in pianos turned out to have a
longevity problem. Solvents called plasticizers keep them flexible (that's
the stuff that evaporates from your dashboard and leaves a film on the
inside of your windshield). These migrated too quickly out of early
plastics, leaving them brittle over time.

But these problems were fixed years ago; Kawai, for example, has had more
than 35 years experience with ABS in actions. Conversely, I tuned a 1960
Steinway in a school recently where several notes didn't play. The cause
was that several jacks had come unglued. These are small L-shaped pieces in
the action that are hard to make in wood. They're too small to laminate,
but no matter which way you orient the grain, one side or the other is going
to eventually snap off. Steinway tried to finesse this by gluing two pieces
together, but with dryness and time, the glue joint failed; they'll all need
to be replaced, at considerable expense.

In contrast, the plastic, or more precisely, composite jacks in Kawais (and
Yamahas) won't fail this way.
See: http://kawaius.com/absp1.htm

--Cy--

Post by texaspaintbrush
Poly,
Thanks for the Renner site...very interesting-Noah, my 8 year old will
love it (the Tokai is actually FOR him). Should I be overly concerned
about the plastic in the action?

[polymod]

Post by texaspaintbrush
Poly,
Thanks for the Renner site...very interesting-Noah, my 8 year old will
love it (the Tokai is actually FOR him). Should I be overly concerned
about the plastic in the action?

First of all, good points by Cy.
Don't be concerned about the plastic.

Post by texaspaintbrush
Question # 2...when the Toaki is delivered, I will have three pianos.
I need to sell the 1950's blonde Acrosonic. It's great looking, and a
family piano, but I can't imagine going back to the sound of it after
the Tokai. It is in good shape, rarely played before we got it, and
I'm thinking about asking between $1500 and $1800 (hoping to defray the
cost of the Tokai with this!)does this sound about right?

Sounds around double. Around here those pianos are going for $700 maybe
$1000 if it's absolutely mint. Plus, in todays decor, this blonde finish is
a hard sell.

Post by texaspaintbrush
My 1930's Jesse French is another matter. I received it gratis as it
fell off a p/u truck on a freeway on ramp and broke the casing (mirror
remained intact!) and it has a great sound (& its inner beauty is
always exposed!). Fun to play, needs lots, can't do it, but it's in
upstairs in my fiber/music studio. Not an easy task to get it there
either-in a bucket of a tractor !

The studio I took lessons at as a kid had one of those pianos. That thing
really wailed!
I always liked the miror.

Post by texaspaintbrush
Don't worry too much about calling me tex-though I'm from California.

Me too...sort of. I moved to Connecticut from Anaheim when I was 6.
Many moons ago<g>

Post by texaspaintbrush
Texaspaintbrush is a pun really. They're a bright orange spring flower
(presently in bloom) and I do paint quite a bit. I live here out of
default, it is NOT the land of my heart.
Congrats on the Yamaha-that's really what I wanted to start with.

Thanks Lisa!
Good luck to you.

Poly

[texaspaintbrush]

Greetings all, I have slept better than I had in 2 weeks, having made
the decision to buy this Tokai piano, as it is now delivered, and the
piano tech spent around 10 hours at my house bringing it up a 1/2 step,
regulating it, cleaning it, and fixing some bad spots on the polyester
finish. I now know what it really sounds like, and it's wonderful. The
previous owners clearly cought it as a pretty piece of furniture, and
never had anything done to it. I am going to play and listen to it for
awhile, though I have a feeling the upper end could use some voicing,
but other than that, I am one HAPPY puppy.

Post by polymod

Post by texaspaintbrush
Poly,
Thanks for the Renner site...very interesting-Noah, my 8 year old will
love it (the Tokai is actually FOR him). Should I be overly

concerned

Post by polymod

Post by texaspaintbrush
about the plastic in the action?

First of all, good points by Cy.
Don't be concerned about the plastic.

Post by texaspaintbrush
Question # 2...when the Toaki is delivered, I will have three pianos.
I need to sell the 1950's blonde Acrosonic. It's great looking, and a
family piano, but I can't imagine going back to the sound of it after
the Tokai. It is in good shape, rarely played before we got it, and
I'm thinking about asking between $1500 and $1800 (hoping to defray the
cost of the Tokai with this!)does this sound about right?

Sounds around double. Around here those pianos are going for $700 maybe
$1000 if it's absolutely mint. Plus, in todays decor, this blonde finish is
a hard sell.

Post by texaspaintbrush
My 1930's Jesse French is another matter. I received it gratis as it
fell off a p/u truck on a freeway on ramp and broke the casing (mirror
remained intact!) and it has a great sound (& its inner beauty is
always exposed!). Fun to play, needs lots, can't do it, but it's in
upstairs in my fiber/music studio. Not an easy task to get it there
either-in a bucket of a tractor !

The studio I took lessons at as a kid had one of those pianos. That thing
really wailed!
I always liked the miror.

Post by texaspaintbrush
Don't worry too much about calling me tex-though I'm from

California.

Post by polymod
Me too...sort of. I moved to Connecticut from Anaheim when I was 6.
Many moons ago<g>

Post by texaspaintbrush
Texaspaintbrush is a pun really. They're a bright orange spring flower
(presently in bloom) and I do paint quite a bit. I live here out of
default, it is NOT the land of my heart.
Congrats on the Yamaha-that's really what I wanted to start with.

Thanks Lisa!
Good luck to you.
Poly

[polymod]

Congrats and enjoy it!!!


Poly